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Turkey stuffed?
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Seedy
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:45 am 
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tonytg806 wrote:
Wow! And where did they perchance this idea? Who was in charge/responsible for this state of affairs? I suspect an older generation....


I don't think so: they're too busy blaming the older generation - via the Twattersphere, of course - to realise that preceding generations were aware that they could actually LEARN something from their elders (including, theoretically at least, how not to make the same mistakes) and, perhaps more importantly, that they had something to learn.

Nowadays, everyone's "entitled": not to have to compete, in case their fragile egos are damaged beyond repair; not to be disciplined or, heaven forbid, discipline themselves; not to work if they don't want to, because some other schmuck will pick up the tab; to pout and posture while taking fatuous selfies that no-one with half a brain gives an aerial fornication about; to vote, even if their grasp of the issues is even less than that of a bribed illiterate gypsy or bussed-in "Bulgarian" Turk; to create nonsensical on-line petitions about ludicrous non-issues, and which anyway contain millions of fake "signatures"; to run about in lynch mobs because they are too dim to know the difference between paediatrician and paedophile; to destroy historical monuments because the people in them were tougher in both mind and body than they are but lacked a time-machine to discover how historical perspective can be discarded in favour of political bias and virtue-signalling; even to top themselves because some pillock on soshul meejah said they were too fat/thin/pretty/ugly/clever/stupid......the list truly is infinite in both its length and how depressing it is to observe.

Communism deservedly failed but it seems that Socialism and Fake Equality has triumphed, with the result that there is no more emperor but now everyone has invisible new clothes and transparently meaningless "values" to sound off about. Real life has disappeared - at least in the West - and been replaced by a virtual "reality" that is so artificial that it only exists in fools' minds and on smartphones, which are so called because they are indeed much more intelligent than their users. Evil or Very Mad
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tonytg806
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:27 am 
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Seedy wrote:
tonytg806 wrote:
Wow! And where did they perchance this idea? Who was in charge/responsible for this state of affairs? I suspect an older generation....


I don't think so: they're too busy blaming the older generation - via the Twattersphere, of course - to realise that preceding generations were aware that they could actually LEARN something from their elders (including, theoretically at least, how not to make the same mistakes) and, perhaps more importantly, that they had something to learn.

Nowadays, everyone's "entitled": not to have to compete, in case their fragile egos are damaged beyond repair; not to be disciplined or, heaven forbid, discipline themselves; not to work if they don't want to, because some other schmuck will pick up the tab; to pout and posture while taking fatuous selfies that no-one with half a brain gives an aerial fornication about; to vote, even if their grasp of the issues is even less than that of a bribed illiterate gypsy or bussed-in "Bulgarian" Turk; to create nonsensical on-line petitions about ludicrous non-issues, and which anyway contain millions of fake "signatures"; to run about in lynch mobs because they are too dim to know the difference between paediatrician and paedophile; to destroy historical monuments because the people in them were tougher in both mind and body than they are but lacked a time-machine to discover how historical perspective can be discarded in favour of political bias and virtue-signalling; even to top themselves because some pillock on soshul meejah said they were too fat/thin/pretty/ugly/clever/stupid......the list truly is infinite in both its length and how depressing it is to observe.

Communism deservedly failed but it seems that Socialism and Fake Equality has triumphed, with the result that there is no more emperor but now everyone has invisible new clothes and transparently meaningless "values" to sound off about. Real life has disappeared - at least in the West - and been replaced by a virtual "reality" that is so artificial that it only exists in fools' minds and on smartphones, which are so called because they are indeed much more intelligent than their users. Evil or Very Mad


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

That's a great Sunday rant. Thanks for making me laugh as usual because as we know there is more than a grain of truth in what you write.....
  
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plevenite
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:34 am 
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Just heard on the news that the Turkish currency has slipped even lower.  
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scasparz
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:38 am 
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Looks Tagip has been over ambitious, to say the least. He may be bullying Greece daily, he may fight the Kurds in Syria, he may shoot down a Russian jet but there is a limit in everything and clearly he stepped over that.

Would have been wiser for the americans to leave him some space to breath before he lets that pastor run free. For a cornered Ertogan, with his currency falling could be highly unpredictable and this could destabilize further an already destabilized region. Not sure if the US would benefit from this.

In the end, this may also have significant ramifications on those EU Banks that have lent him money, eg the Spanish, the Italian and the German ones. He may not be an EU member, however economies are so densely interconnected our days while always so fragile.
  
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Seedy
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:07 am 
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The US might not benefit but for sure the rest of us here will be left in a much worse state if the doo-doo hits the fan.

If I were in Tsippy's place I'd stop pussy-footing around and rattling my non-existent sabre in an empty scabbard: instead of sending up fighters to warn off intruders in my air-space I'd simply test out my missile defences. If it turns out that I've wasted my money on them I'd sue the suppliers and find someone who will sell me equipment that really does the job.

Let's see if NATO is really a paper tiger and if the EU are actually prepared for what is likely to happen sooner or later anyway. It's ridiculous to leave Erdogan sitting on the edge of Europe with his hands on the refugee floodgates forever - we really need to know how the land lies and whether we have leaders who are prepared to do what it takes when the chips are down. It's no good finding out the hard way that it's all bluster and that the best they can offer us is the old "kiss your a&& goodbye" when push comes to shove.

Tsippy's already disappointed people too many times and the Old Thieves are no better - where is the New Metaxas when we need him? Wink
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scasparz
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:23 pm 
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Metaxas has been one of the best leaders Greece ever had. He foresaw the coming WWII and did the best he could to prepare the country for the purpose. His efforts paid back during the italo-greek war in Albania, a war Greece won against all odds.

By comparison Tsippy is just a comedian about whom -like the rest of the local political elite- it is an open secret they believe that buying arms is a means to gain political protection from the manufacturing country and a deterrent against a war they know they cannot win. Greek elites whether political or economic lack cojones, Greece is a soft power they say, only to whitewash their own incompetence.

Currently armed forces are left without spares, fuel or munitions to use. I could be writing pages on their poor condition, point is the balance of power is leaning heavily on the other side. The army is a paper army only. After all Greece is a paper country itself, a German debt colony, having lost whatever sovereignty they had. Let me remind you Tsippy was begging to allow him hold a referendum on FYROM, but they were not interested. It did not take much to make him succumb. Nevertheless they allowed the FYROM leadership to hold a referendum on the same matter. Doesn't this tell you something?

Not a prophet, yet it is expected our good old cleptocrats to seize power in the coming elections. Just imagine, those chaps who ought to be imprisoned for embezzlement will run again the country they have looted during the previous decade. Not that Tsipras is a creditable alternative either. In that sense, there is no chance for Greece. Period.

Due to Turkey’s geopolitical position, NATO would never aid Greece against them in any way. To put it simply Greece lacks allies to count upon. As for Turkey they seem they do not need any, at least against Greece. Not to mention they have got Vlad.

As you know, Syria has already shot down a Turkish F-4. So what?

Of course it is ridiculous to leave Tagip sitting on the edge of Europe, much like it was the so called Greek bail out program, wasn’t it. In the end, Tsippy may not be the only comedian in this business, mate.
  
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Seedy
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:45 pm 
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The only leverage Tsippy might have would be NATO's reluctance to see one of its members really get hammered by another, especially Turkey. Whether NATO actually HAS any strength is another question, as is its resolve to actually DO anything (apart from bomb FYROM and then invite them to join NATO, FFS! Evil or Very Mad )

Tsippy's record in doing what he says he's going to do after voters give him a mandate to do it is pretty poor, so a referendum about anything would be pointless...η κακομοίρα η Ελλασ is fv¢ked, I'd say Sad
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scasparz
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:41 pm 
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κακομοίρα η Ελλας is fv¢ked, I'd say


This is exactly the base line, mate.
  
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Seedy
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:11 am 
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Well, it looks as though Alexis the Great has brought new hope to Greece with his influx of Commie Kids - even though only political chancers and no-hopers are going to be interested in being deckhands on the Imperial Submarine HMS Syriza as she sinks beneath the waves with her hatches wide open...

I hope Merkel is ready to receive some more "refugees"! Evil or Very Mad
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scasparz
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:25 am 
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IMHO most probably this is no to both.

Tsipras -a kind of a new Papandreu- is here to stay. He may lose the coming elections, yet there are no political leaders who can match him, at this moment. His chief rival Mitsotakis is a silly πορφυρογέννητος μπούλης, a thacherist who has nothing but his father's name to demonstrate. Being an opposition leader at this time in Greece, is the easiest job on the earth, yet with a government taking one unpopular measure after another he has failed miserably the grasp the annoyance of the voters, despite having unprecedented support from his friendly media barons. One of the cleptocrats himself (Siemens), coming from a family of cleptocrats, with strong ties with narc-traffickers (Marinakes) he seems consumable, he may win the coming elections, but it is doubtful if he could survive his term. Would not be surprised if his government will collapse after the first few unpopular measures he plans to take.

As for frau Merkel, she is expected to return to Greece some 2000 refuges.
  
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Seedy
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:19 am 
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Mr S, there's one thing that always strikes me when I go to Greece these days and that's how expensive everything is compared to both current prices here in Bulgaria and the equivalent prices in Greece in "The Old Days". Now I'm not talking about του Όθωνα τα χρόνια but I well remember decent apartments in Kolonaki going for the equivalent of £10,000 and houses in Corfu, for example, selling for quite a lot less. Eating out was cheap - for everyone - and a visit στα μπουζούκια was a regular occurrence. Nowadays everyone complains about how poor they are but the restaurants are full - and not just with Russians and Brits Wink - and property is ridiculously expensive, despite the taxes.

Here, on the other hand, property - even in decent parts of Sofia - is MUCH cheaper and eating out is an affordable "luxury"; indeed in the smaller towns it's barely more expensive than feeding yourself at home.

I'm curious to know how such ostensibly "poor" people can eat out at those prices and how come the supposed slump in the property market, together with the comparatively high (and seemingly ever-increasing) burden of property taxes hasn't resulted in house/apartment prices reaching much more reasonable levels. If people really are desparate for money, one would imagine that they'd be willing to put their property on the market at a price that would attract buyers quickly, rather than at a level which guarantees they're going to be both waiting a long time to sell, if they ever do, and simultaneously paying out property taxes for the same period. Once people started being realistic, market forces would result in prices reaching some kind of equilibrium, thus promoting selling and buying. The sensible thing would clearly be to sell your property for a reasonable sum and then down-size to something more manageable in terms of both size and cost. However Mr Spitogatos tells me that prices are still at what I'm inclined to regard as ridiculous levels everywhere in Greece.

There's either some logical explanation that I'm missing here or people simply aren't as skint as they like to claim and can afford to sit around waiting for someone to pay the huge sums being asked.

What say you: are Bulgarians simply more economically smart by avoiding getting into national and personal debt or is there some truth in the way many EU citizens regard Greece and it's not just the Kleptocrats who are the problem? Cool
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scasparz
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:16 pm 
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Well, as am sure you know, the economy is based on consumption. It is consumption that produces revenue for the business and also bringing taxes to the state. Keynes once famously wrote 'if you want the economy to thrive, just pay a few workers to dig holes on a road, and then pay them again to fill them up'. In other words economy-wise the kind of consumption is irrelevant, and while consuming on silly things may ultimately drain the resources of a household, nevertheless this may still be good for the business. Of course this has its own perils, with inflation being one of them. Obviously a balance needs to found.

To consume you have to afford it in the first place. Lower consumption reduces business revenue and relative state income from taxes. Reduced liquidity leads to a reduced economy, while a reduced economy reduces personal income also affecting employment badly. Kind of a vicious cyrcle.

The recipe followed in Greece by the memoranda has slashed income, with GDP falling by 25% -in reality this figure exceeds 40%-, and this has killed employment and drained state income. Additionally, for the state to pay back the massive debt, they had to impose heavy taxes on everything, something that drained the economy even further making matters considerably worse. Both consumers and businesses -wherever they can- try to evade paying for VAT, currently standing at 24%, thus saving about a quarter of the overall price and this is serious.

Am afraid the picture you may get from the μπουζούκια can be highly fictious. Most Greeks cannot afford summer holidays any longer. The vast majority of those that still can, have reduced the length of their holidays together with their spending. Greek tourists have traditionally being good spenders and the preferred kind of customers domestically. I remember when a few years ago Platamon was still a popular destination for German tourists, these folks used to carry with them all the way from their country the potatoes they were supposed to eat. Of course an average German has higher income than an average Greek, yet as consumers they were lesser. Γιούφτοι.

The president of the local industry association has asked the gov for further cuts on salaries for the shake of competitiveness with other foreign countries. Reduced salaries encourage foreign investment he claims, but I believe he is absolutely wrong. Had it been so, it must have been Bulgaria and Romania the champions in foreign investments, yet point is it is Germany and Switzerland instead, where salaries are dramatically higher. Why this? Because their consumer base is much healthier thus providing better chances for an investment to flourish, while both their business and state infrastructure -another key factor- are probably the best in the world.

Prices in Greece have remained high. In theory inflation is insignificant however both the industry together with the middle men have managed to keep them up. For example in most of Europe milk -a vital food- comes cheaper than water. However in Greece milk is extremely expensive thanks to the local milk cartel that local govs together with the lenders seem to have encouraged. That Greeks themselves lack proper consumer consciousness makes things much worse. Admittedly we have to grow up.

Real estate prices have fallen by at least 30%, but there are indications they are bouncing back, looks foreigners are replacing the local buyers. In Thessaloniki for example the real estate market is mostly driven by the Turks. Why not? Salonica is only six hours away from Constantinople on highway class roads and safe from Tagip, at least for the moment. Rich Bulgarians are buying at Kavala. Russians are buying only top properties at Chalkidiki.

Anyway you cannot compare Greek houses with the BG ones. For the Greek ones are build to a much higher specification, for example the local structural regulations that have to counter the frequent earthquakes are draconian and most probably the strictest in Europe. True they are not enforced everywhere, with αυθαίρετα (unlicensed properties, build overnight) being a popular choice in the undeveloped areas. However this is not the case with most greek urban properties. Not to mention that although am not a fan of Athens, I believe most would agree living there cannot be compared with living in Sofia. As you know, have for years considered emigrating in BG, to benefit from the lower cost of living. Was the later I was looking for and not the standards of living.

Kolonaki is Athens most expensive neighbourhood, on this let me remind you the rich were not affected by the crisis. In that sense I would expect Kolonaki prices to keep escalating further in the future. Filothei, Kifisia and Rafena follow closely while of cource Ekali where the oligarchs live belongs to some different country, not Greece. £10,000 for a property at Kolonaki and a lot less for Corfu? Those good old day prices you have in mind must have been a very very very long time ago. Ου παντός πλείν εις Κόρινθον, mate.

Are the Greek real estate prices reasonable? No there are not. A few years ago I took a look on real estate prices at Tamworth, a kind of a Birmingham suburb, that is the place I have spend most of my time while in the UK. Given UK houses are of much lower specs, typically brick build, I concluded it was UK properties that were madly overpriced by comparison. Of course UK properties are no match for the Silicon valley ones in California, USA, but I understand this is a different matter.

To answer your last question, it is true cleptocrats are the main problem but not the only one. As I wrote before, we Greeks need to grow up.
  
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Seedy
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:52 pm 
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Actually, you might well be surprised at the building standards in Sofia, especially with new-builds - there are strict regulations about earthquake resistance here as well and it's one of the things that doesn't get scrimped on. Even the old "panel" blocks are surprisingly robust, even if they aren't pretty: Soviet-style architecture was often Brutalist but it was built to last, and it has done!

I can tell you, hand on heart, that Sofia is among the best cities I've lived in and I think you really do need to try it before you write it off too quickly. Very Happy As for Athens, I haven't been there for well over thirty years and, based on what I see on TV and in the papers, I have no great desire to see just how bad it is "in the flesh these days.

Πού είσαι, καϋμένε Περικλή
να βγεις να σεργιανίσεις
και την Αθήνα σου να δεις
και να μην τη γνωρίσεις....

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