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starry
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:37 pm 
Post subject: Bullying
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I would be interested to hear from anyone on this forum that believe they have experienced bullying by expat Brits. Bullying can impact on life in a very serious way and I have read that this is very common in expat enclaves.

If anyone has, maybe it would help to discuss on an anonymous forum how they have suffered whether real or imagined. Bullying now seems to occur in all walks of life and can have very serious consequencies so please take this post seriously or don't bother to reply. Thanks.
  
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Seedy
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:19 pm 
Post subject: Re: Bullying
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starry wrote:
.....take this post seriously or don't bother to reply.


A case in point? Wink

Seriously though, I have a bit of a problem getting my head around how "bullying" of adults, especially not in an employment-type situation, actually works. One reads about people topping themselves over on-line bullying and indeed about bullying in expat enclaves but I can't quite fathom why one would give an aerial fornication about people who try to do this kind of thing. It may be just me but why on earth would one care about what some saddo thinks, says or does; surely one just laughs and ignores them, or is it something to do with needing to be in the company of one's fellow-countrymen come hell or high water?
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Cliff
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:15 pm 
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Agreed Seedy. If one only has a small close knit circle of acquaintances, new in a country or town, then the perpetrators of bullying should be confronted face to face. If the bullying is from far and wide on line then surely one just disconnects from them or am I being too simple.  
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plevenite
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:46 am 
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I have been an expat almost 20 years and have never encountered anything of the sort.  
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Seedy
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:11 pm 
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Maybe you're smart and avoid the wrong/all expats? Wink
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starry
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:32 pm 
Post subject: bullying
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Maybe its living in a small village where its impossible to avoid peope. One strong person who takes a dislike to another can gather a group together in social situations to alienate the chosen victim. This can lead to a physical assault which can be called a 'set up' and ends up in court. The Bulgarians call it a conspiracy. Yes, it can be ignored but I suggest its not a nice way to live and why confront the bully when the truth will never be told because there really is no truth to the matter except that, some people just don't like the victim. The only answer is to leave and move on. This is the kind of scenario that I am thinking of and if you have no experience of it then lucky you but please don't simplify the matter as if it doesn't exist because you have not experienced bullying.
It is rife everywhere these days often spread in social media and groups of expats seem to provide a breeding ground for these jealous, sad people. Not all people moving abroad to start a new life are good, kind, honest people. How many harbour nasty secrets and re-invent themselves? Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
  
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plevenite
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:35 pm 
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I was simply pointing out that I have never experienced it.  
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Seedy
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:34 pm 
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Starry, I certainly wasn't suggesting that it doesn't exist per se but nonetheless this sort of nonsense usually requires some input from the victim, even if it's no more than acquiescing in the whole charade by giving a t@ss about what these idiots say or think. If it shows signs of getting "physical" then I'd suggest getting your retaliation in first, making sure there is no evidence of who did what to whom. If the victim isn't up to anything too strenuous, it's hardly difficult to buy all sorts of interesting implements here for just such eventualities or hire a couple of louts to administer a spanking.

At the end of the day, though, it's best to simply pay no attention to such idiots or, best of all, not to settle anywhere where there are any Brit oiks and f*ckwits about. While I don't doubt that other nationalities also go in for such stupid behaviour it seems that they don't to such an extent as Perfidious Albion's prime specimens of pond-life....
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Xanthos
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:33 pm 
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I haven't got around to editing my normal blather on the other thread, but I thought I would make an observation on the issue raised by Starry.

The issue raised in this thread is common to the dilemma faced by many close knit communities and is similar to the group dynamic problems faced by most social groups, which invariably go through the well rehearsed stages of 'forming, storming, norming, and performing and/or adjourning', as advocated by social psychologists like Tuckman and others. One only has to watch the micro environment staged events like the 'Big Brother' house to see the compressed 'media eccentric' versions of this natural phenomenon.

In psycho babble terms that reflect the 'expat spat' experiences that Starry commented was occurring in Bg villages, it's known as 'norm violation', which frequently occurs when groups change in size and/or intragroup/intergroup relationships alter (for the saddos amongst you Sandra Schruijer wrote a right rivetting read entitled 'Norm Violation, Attribution and Attitudes in Intergroup Relations'). It's really no different to other animal groups when stressed by limited food/water resources, a significant gender imbalance in the social group (invariably too many males and too few females) or other physical environmental stressors e.g. increased predator range, reduced canopy cover.

The norm violations in these human communities are already complicated by expat individuals settling within Bg villages (of itself requiring adaptation and adjustment - for different parties), which are themselves suffering some of the stressors mentioned above with their ageing communities, imbalanced genders (generally Bg males have a significantly shorter lifespan impacting on the many villages with high numbers of widows) and slowly declining infrastructure as the municipal tax revenues reduce.

Moreover, I think the point mentioned earlier in the thread about some of the choices made by Brit expats (and some others) for choosing Bg to 'restart' or 'change' their lifestyles, which may have stemmed from a genuine desire to integrate into rural communities with a different pace of life and alternate infrastructures; sometimes that works, but other times - not so much! It's for certain social miscreants are what they are, and like the hyena, will nip at the scraps and not seek to be the pack leader unless, and until the environment allows it i.e. they become the 'top dog' or social predator!

To continue the animal kingdom analogy, my point here is about the leopard not changing its spots, and bullies will persist with their 'norm violations' in any environment unless they're effectively confronted. The change of social environment from UK (or elsewhere) to become expats in Bg will not change their primary character flaws / personality traits, but it may inhibit their behaviour (as local Bgs withdraw assistance / cooperation) or more actively intervene (often with a big stick) to apply the necessary behaviour modification through socially isolating and thus disempowering the individual.

For the expat community itself, as their age increases, social status changes -working/retired, family shrinks or new partners attracted, financial situations improve / worsen over time and the community fluctuates. The impact of these socially inadequate individuals may also change as their antisocial behaviours cannot be absorbed or deflected by the other expats. Generally the smaller the community, the more interdependent it becomes, and the more the 'group norms' gain importance, particularly as there's less stress absorption possible amongst fewer individuals and group maintenance requires more effort. Ultimately, the social 'misfit' becomes the bully or in some situations the victim, and therein lays the problem outlined by Starry!

For a physical environmental analogy of the problem, one only has to look to California today - the poor attention to the local environment by homesteaders in the exclusive enclaves, led to significant brush fires and forest burnouts resulting in devastating losses during the dry period in their 'fall'. Now the problem is compounded by the mudslides channelled by natural and man made faults, because of the reduced water absorption capacity of the ground in heavy rain. In human terms, a lack of group maintenance to adequately secure its social 'norms' and stabilise the community will ultimately see a short lasting stressor or a dramatic event damage a valuable social structure as its interpersonal 'absorption' capacity is reduced.

Unless the bully has something significant the community actually needs to survive and their behaviour is 'tolerated' (as a group norm) by its members (e.g. Bg language skills, useful transport), because it's seen as a quid pro quo, then the group is invariably fated to frequently revisit the 'storming' cycle, whilst trying to adopt new functional 'norms'. Usually this will fail and the group 'adjourns'; in a practical sense this means individuals bugger off to pastures new. Others who can't get away will gradually withdraw or limit their interaction, so the group is denied their social contribution, which in turn affects the group dynamics.

Clearly, bullies are not tolerated in any social environment for the long term, and their behaviour may be dynamically adjusted through a bespoke 'kinetic effect', as suggested earlier by Seedy! For the bully's behaviour to succeed, it's the other group members that often determine the persistence of the aggressor who may predate only on one / two individuals or less frequently on all members (particularly amongst adults). Of course the key issue here is the recognition that the bully's 'success' is generally the expat community's loss and in turn the potential 'new life' injected into a Bg village community may also be lost as people disengage, because of expat prats with inadequate social functioning skills!

As suggested earlier, just because people leave their homeshore to settle overseas, does not mean they will radically change their social conduct! The oik from Orsett will continue to behave as an oik in Ostend, unless satisfactorily 'ejikated' by the appropriate social carrot or a properly crafted cudgel.

On a slightly different note, and following a decade of 'CDRILS' embedded in the military noggin, I notice my last boss CGS was earlier defending the latest Capita crafted 'PC centric' social marketing bolleux to entice the younger generation to 'Be the Best'!! Oh dear! How sad never mind, you may say, but as contemporaries of a different military era, I'm certain MW will also be discovered crying in his beer if he watches this!

https://tinyurl.com/ybzcxup7
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Seedy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:54 am 
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I must confess to having had a good chuckle when the "Multi-culti Gender-fluid Army" stuff hit the news a few days ago. Rolling Eyes

Luckily, there's not much left to defend these days, and even less stomach to do so among Generation Snowflake, who are largely under-educated and semi-illiterate, assume that getting killed means having to press a "Respawn" button somewhere, and that "respect" is something that you're owed rather something you earn.

Luckily, I probably won't be around to see them get their come-uppance from folk whose cultures aren't as enfeebled as ours have become, but I do sometimes wonder what on earth the kids of the snowflakes will turn out to be like - and who they will blame for the mess they're in.....
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starry
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:18 pm 
Post subject: Bullying
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Thank you so much for such a long and interesting post on expat bullying Xanthos. I am reading this over a few times. It manages to express so succinctly my point. I didn't expect any possible victim to post on an open forum for obvious reasons but I did hope that someone would understand the dynamics of bullying and if they knew of it.

I think Bulgarian villagers do have their own bullies and their own ways of dealing with it which results in feuds which last years and go down the generations. It was the same in Greece where, if one family refused to talk to another everyone in the extended family and even their friends, were expected to join the feud which sometimes ended in physical violence or business harrassment.

Are they stronger people than us Brits or is it because Expats are trying to integrate and absorb a foreign language and culture without any support from UK family and friends who would have no idea of the problems anyway? When I lived in Canada I knew an Italian expat community and they fully supported each other even to clubbing together to build homes for newcomers. However, this was in the 60s and things may well have changed now.

This maybe due to the general competitive nature of life in general which expats hope to get away from. I hope Xanthos might provoke more to post about village feuds/bullying.
  
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Seedy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:47 pm 
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I'm not sure that "bullying" is the usual cause of a feud in Greece, Starry - and in some parts it used to end, or rather extend into, more than merely physical violence; once someone had trodden that path it could easily last for generations. Whether it was/is down to pride or stupidity is a moot point, of course. Rolling Eyes

As to why "expat bullying" should be a mainly Brit past-time, I'd venture to suggest that it has something to do with the kind of dross that sometimes washes up on foreign shores - but it's still also up to the person on the receiving end whether they want to play the victim or simply ignore it and get on with their lives, or even make a more robust response....
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Tiarnan
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:15 am 
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Never been bu!!ied in my life so I did,nt come to Bulgaria to be bullied.......not that anyone has tried to. But that may also be due to the fact that I stay as far as possible from anyone who is not a local. I don,t go to car boot sales or bar b q,s. I avoid like the plague any where that foreigners congregate. And even at my age I may well take.....as Seedy called called it.....a robust response to any attempt at bullying.  
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